If you love creating and marketing products, you will love this episode even more. It features a few tips on how Jon Nastor of Hack the Entrepreneur, goes about his business and other entrepreneurial ventures, that you might find useful for your small business.
Jon discusses the importance of online presence, capturing and retaining audience, and bridging the gap between the online and the offline world.
Points of interest:
- The online business mentality
- Opening up to opportunities
- “Cool kids” hang out in the Internet
- Importance of having an online presence
- Communication between the online world and the offline world
- Help, help and help other people
- Being genuine in relationship building
- Being a producer rather than being a consumer
The Showrunner Course and Community
Welcome to Smart Tradesmen. The show dedicated to bringing Entrepreneurship into small business. Whether you are a seasoned business owner or just starting out, it is our mission to help you design a business that works for you… and not the other way around. Now, here’s your host Daniel Eric Bowling.
Hi, welcome to today’s episode of the Smart Tradesmen podcast. I am your host, Daniel Eric Bowling, very excited to be here and very excited for today’s guest and another amazing conversation that I can’t wait to get to you. But before I do, do you remember the last episode when I said I just got engaged? Well even with all of my efforts of trying to dodge the wedding planning, I’ve heard enough to know that weddings are expensive. So in the last few days, I’ve been trying to decide how am I gonna pay for this wedding? And it kinda scares me knowing that I’ve moved away from all of my great contacts in Cincinnati now that I’m here in Columbia South Carolina. I’m kind of a nobody. So what am I to do? I decided I’m gonna start taking on my own upholstery clients. Essentially I am gonna start my upholstery business here in Columbia South Carolina, starting from scratch but no clientele and hopefully, making it off to pay for our wedding. I was fretting about it behind the scenes but then I realized it’s crazy to be in to this alone and now at least we’re talking about it because that’s the whole point of me having a podcast so that I can include you in my journey from a tradesman to being hopefully a smart tradesman and figuring it out together and bringing you along with me.
Since I am starting from ground zero, I am gonna be addressing all of the issues that we face in our service based businesses from naming clients to trading hours for money. So I am more than thrilled that I get to take you along for the ride. In the upcoming months, you’ll hear the ups and downs of the process of me getting established and finding work here in the new state. Am I doing this just to prove that it can be done? I wish. I need to work to pay for this wedding so necessity is a driving factor I assure you so I hope that you enjoy the process more than I am going to because just as all of you, I can’t stand cold calling and finding new clients and get comfortable with the clients that they have and I kinda stop growing. But now I have zero clients and I’m forced to pick up the phone and start calling so I’ll let you know how it goes for me and hopefully you find some inspiration in me struggling here and starting from zero and apply a little bit of effort to your own business, seeing you already have had start compared to myself.
And if you haven’t started your own business yet and you’re considering, take this as a challenge to yourself to just go for it cause I’m here to help and so this Smart Tradesmen community. So now on to today’s conversation with my guest. He’s another podcaster. I admit that this first episode is all loaded with podcasters but hey, they’re the easy ones to get in a phone call. What I would like to have coming up is some listener episode. I wanna interview you about your businesses and just talk about what your plans are and what you’ve done so far that works and what doesn’t work. So if you are interested in being a guest in Smart Tradesmen podcast then please reach out to me at firstname.lastname@example.org and become a guest on my show. It’ll be awesome, what are you waiting for?
Now to today’s featured segment:
Our guest for today is Canadian. That is all. No wait, there’s more. He’s also a proud father, husband and online entrepreneur. He loves creating, marketing and selling things online. He’s a co-founder of VelosityPage, a WordPress plugin that allows anyone to create a landing page within minutes without using complicated code. Host of two podcasts which I highly recommend both – Hack the Entrepreneur and The Showrunner. Co-creator of The Showrunner Course and Community, teaching beginner and successful podcasters how to create, grow and flourish in a high quality show. And even with the whole of that going on, he still manages to rock out once a week on the drum sets and his punk rock band. I’m thrilled to introduce my guest today, Jon Nastor.
[Jon Nastor] Thank you so much for having me, Daniel.[Daniel Bowling] Oh my dogs are giving you introduction as well.
[Jon Nastor] Hey dogs. Good to meet you.
[Daniel Bowling] You’ve been quiet all day.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah. I do that.
[Daniel Bowling] Thanks for being here. It’s been way too long since we’ve talked.
[Jon Nastor] It has been, I know. I agree. It’s a good idea to record one of these.
[Daniel Bowling] Yeah. Usually when we’re talking I’m always thinking that we were wasting it, cause there’s some good stuff that comes out.
[Jon Nastor] Not this time.
[Daniel Bowling] I must do in the beginning “I’m thrilled to introduce Jon Nastor but you can call him Jonny”.
[Jon Nastor] Aww, shucks.
[Daniel Bowling] But I’m sure you get that way too much.
[Jon Nastor] I could get that a bit but you’re right.
[Daniel Bowling] I decided not to but I had at least tell you I was going to.
[Jon Nastor] Okay. That’s cool. That’s good of you man. That’s good of you man. I got to correct your intro, it was excellent, I liked it. But I’m actually into punk rock bands. Come on, man. I got all the kinds of time.
[Daniel Bowling] What the hell?
[Jon Nastor] I got all kinds of time.
[Daniel Bowling] Well, I was going to make up the second one but I was like, you know, that’d be a little over zealous. But here you are, already into.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, totally.
[Daniel Bowling] Damn, I didn’t know that.
[Jon Nastor] Totally man. Times, times are ticking.
[Daniel Bowling] How that been way too long?
[Jon Nastor] Mmm.
[Daniel Bowling] Where did I get the “You Can Call Me Jonny”?
[Jon Nastor] Where did I get it? Where’d you get it?
[Daniel Bowling] I get it.
[Jon Nastor] Hack the entrepreneur. It’s my introduction to my show.
[Daniel Bowling] I like the story behind where you got it as well so you can tell that.
[Jon Nastor] Oh, that’s we’re you going. I got you, I got yeah. I’m feelin’ it, I’m feelin’ it now. At a conference ‘bout a year ago in the Philippines, Chris Tucker, Tropical Think Tank. If ever you’re thinking of going to first ever business conference or just a really cool one, it’s over in the Philippines. Weird country, I’ll keep it that but awesome conference. And, Pat Flynn was there. Weird masterminding one day and is trying to come up with the ideas for podcast. And, just being the procrastinator that I am, sometimes. Well, like I guess we all do, we’re trying. We put up this stupidest stumbling box right for ourselves to not take action on something. Mine was like I don’t know if I should call myself Jon, or if should I call myself Jonny. Completely useless, right? Jonny is more personable but Jon is like, my name. And he’s like really, “what are you doing?” And, so Pat was like, he’s just like, “Hey my name is Jon Nastor, but you can call me Jonny.” I’m like, “Whoa, that’s amazing!” Now instead, “Now, my God I got to start my podcast cause I got to do that.” I get emails about that often from people. They love that thing and I have to always be like, “It’s alright, I didn’t even come up with that, that’s all Pat.”
[Daniel Bowling] For those that don’t know who Plat Flynn is, I’m sure there’s a few out there, he’s the host of Smart Passive Income and Ask Pat, as well.
[Jon Nastor] Right. And the 1-Day Business Breakthrough.
[Daniel Bowling] With Chris Tucker?
[Jon Nastor] That’s Chris Tucker. Wooh, full circle!
[Daniel Bowling] Well it’s almost like we’ve planned that.
[Jon Nastor] Check.
[Daniel Bowling] But I do like where that was headed as far as creating small things that get us stuck, I’m the master of that. It’s funny that you were there because you’re usually the guy that simplifies my problems for me.
[Jon Nastor] It’s easier to simplify other people’s problems, I think, than it is to simplify your own. Like I know within my master mind group that I’ve talked with once a week, I have these issues, these questions I bring them. They tell me back exactly what I know to be the right answer and it’s just, “Yeah, yeah, you’re right. I know.” And then, they’ll do it. Sometimes you need to hear it from somebody else and just get that feedback or something. But, yeah, it’s just not you, Daniel. It’s all of us, we all deal. I think the more aware we are of these issues we have within ourselves then the better we are overcoming ourselves, which is our biggest hurdle, and actually doing cool stuff.
[Daniel Bowling] Which is what I love about the online business mentality is mastermind, it’s so popular. I have no idea what that was until a year ago. That’s something that needs to be applied to these small businesses. We’re all struggling in probably the same ways but we just couldn’t reach and get unstuck with just somebody telling us the obvious that we are just too blind to see.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah. Like small business offline world, I came from there as well, it’s weird like we’re all against each other. Right? We’re all like fears incompetent, “I don’t want to tell that person how to help their business cause they…” Which doesn’t make any sense. We might could get into the same city or else where in different markets. Even if we’re on the same market, who cares, right? Your ideas – help each other grow and will be better. But online there is no competition. It’s like an end to competition when you go online because, I guess, we’re not setting up stores right next door to each other and also trying to sell shoes or sandwiches to the same person walking by. But even if somebody’s starting a podcast, it’s exactly like mine on exact market. I’m going to help them as much as I can or create a product exactly like bossy pages. Because I know that there isn’t competition. We’re all willing to just further each other. I think if you could take that offline, I think it would obviously help a ton. Actually, I’m thinking about it. It originally started there, right? It’s thinking grow rich by Napoleon Hill, that’s the idea of the mastermind comes from. From 1920’s or 30’s maybe. Maybe of 40’s or 50’s, i don’t know. That was a long time ago, it’s a long way before the internet. But that’s where the concept comes from, right? I don’t know why we’ve really just grab onto that latch online. But I think it is that more abundant mentality than just trying to fight with each other. I don’t know, it’s a weird thing.
[Daniel Bowling] What are we scared of, competition? Somebody stealing our business?
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, totally. That’s like just the limited mindset, right? “We’re just only so much business, this is only so many customers, this is only so much money, there’s only…” It’s like, “Well online, no. We can always get more traffic, we can always get more customers, we can always sell more stuff if we want.” Which is weird, right? In theory, it’s not any different. It’s just the mindset that makes it different, it really, really is. Just don’t hold on to your stuff, don’t let non-disclosure agreement every time you want to talk to somebody about business and all that crap. You’re just limiting yourself. Open yourself up and help other people do cool stuff and they’ll help you do cool stuff. It’s just the way it is. It’s just humans really want to be. I don’t know why small business doesn’t really latch on to that though.
[Daniel Bowling] Especially like the skilled trades including technology based trades that are starting becoming more of a thing, there’s not enough people going into them so what are we worried about? There is not enough people that’s going to take all the business if anything push you to be better and go further.
[Jon Nastor] Totally. And I don’t know what that is. I don’t know what that reasoning is. But I guess if you can figure that out, then you’re golden.
[Daniel Bowling] That’s one mindset I am trying to address with all of these is kind a people to get open up specially across different and industries so we can learn from each other.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah. But not even in trades. I’m finding it kind of fascinated by Elon Musk. Brilliant, brilliant man made over a billion dollars with Paypal when he was quite young which other people there was lots of his partners at that time that all did lots them went on investing companies here and there. And, he literally put it all on the line, put all of his own money into it, lost his wife in the process, almost lost his house and everything. Literally a billion dollars in like his early 30’s to, “I’m going to build electric cars and rocket ships”. Its like, “Woah, dude. Seriously? What are you doing?” Doesn’t even make any sense. It’s so big and crazy and he’s doing it now successfully, amazingly. But he’s done this thing with, I don’t know if he follow Tesla cars, I’m obsessed with Tesla, it’s electric car company. He’s open sourced all of the technology. He’s pushing battery technology and electric car technology further than it’s ever imagine like we could go this far in 2015. And he’s completely open sourcing it, meaning all of the technology they have this second, everybody in the world has it and he’s like “General Motors, Ford, Crysler, everybody take this technology and build of it, let’s all build electric cars together, let’s further technology and further ourselves as like a nation.” All together, let’s just do it, not work against each other, “Oh you can’t have my technology.” It’s amazing, it’s a brilliant thing in an old industry that’s never, would never even think of doing something like this. And, he’s just like, “Here it is.” He announced it via twitter. It’s all going open source. It’s amazing to me. And I hope that helps because that’s part of that old, which I think that lots of trades and stuff are in that sort of mindset, something big like this. If General Motors tries to adopt it and Ford, this is going to help and hopefully creates some sort of grounds where people will start to think like this. Let’s open up – let’s open up our ideas, let’s open up our thoughts, let’s open up everything we are trying to do, and we’ll all do better for it. We really will. We shouldn’t be fighting each other, we’re in this together. We can do really big, crazy, cool stuff if we do it like that. That’s my Tesla thing. Probably just one of the beginning. I’m really really obsessed with Tesla right now.
[Daniel Bowling] I’m sure we’ll circle back.
[Jon Nastor] We’ll circle back don’t you worry.
[Daniel Bowling] So, let’s put a pin in Tesla. I have a question. Did you know that the internet is where all the cool kids are hanging out today?
[Jon Nastor] No. It’s actually the whole bunch of nerds like myself. None of us are cool, we all seem really cool. We’re all like really good in dealing with people in crowd and super extroverted. And, none of us were all sitting in coffee shops or in our own houses at our laptops hoping we don’t have to actually meet somebody in person. But we get to write things to get read by tens of thousands of people, we get to publish podcast to get listened to by thousands and thousands of people. But it actually comes time to meeting people, it’s like, “Ugh!” Nerds, we really really are. Sorry, sorry, sorry. “Sure.”
[Daniel Bowling] “I don’t like to be touched.”
[Jon Nastor] Exactly, exactly. Cool kids you say. Cool kids.
[Daniel Bowling] You’re on the internet so I thought you would like that.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, thanks, thanks. Truth is coming out today, sorry.
[Daniel Bowling] It is true that more and more though there’s such an importance to having an online presence, any recommendations of how an offline business should get started in that direction?
[Jon Nastor] Oh, wow! That’s a big question. You’re right, you need the online presence and that online presence should be based around an audience, an audience that you build… There’s so many different ways you can do it. It’s hard to know for an offline business to come online. It’s typically done now through content, right? If you don’t know what the term content means, you know what content is because you read it and you consume it all the time, it’s what every major website now puts out and has writers to just produce content that attracts whether it’s sportsillustrated.com, or it’s wallstreetjournal.com, or it’s buzzfeed.com, or I don’t know the other one. But even Facebook is going to it now, it’s buying content from people. It’s really just being written, or produced videos, or podcasts audio, or texts, just to attract you. If it’s attracted you and you keep going back there, it’s probably because they targeted you very, very well. And, was made specifically for you to draw you in. Then, once they bring you in repeatedly to this website, they you’ll know there’s ad obviously around. There’s ways to monetize this but the focus always is first or should be always first is just building that audience. Meaning, that if you are just any, trying to think of an example, give an example for me. Like what kind of company do you want to talk about? Like what kind of company are we bringing online?
[Daniel Bowling] I think you’ve answered it pretty well so far. You’re talking more like creating fans by offering them value as opposed to having just a customer. So, let’s bring an upholstery shop online.
[Jon Nastor] Wow, an upholstery shop. Something I know absolutely nothing about.
[Daniel Bowling] I picked this cause I know everything about it.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, you do, right? To bringing it online, I guess the big mistake is typically if you’re an upholstery shop and you want to come online and you hear this Jon guy and you create content, you typically create a very, very thinly disguised sales page or sales offer. But how awesome your services are and how you do the best upholstery in your area, and blah blah blah stuff I just don’t care about as a customer. I just go online, we skip across things, too quick to just have a thinly veiled sales page directed at me first. People love to buy billions and trillions of dollars of stuff sold online. People love to buy stuff online but not initially. That’s not how you create a customer. You need to create content that when it’s done really, really well, it’s almost like it doesn’t have anything to do with upholstery. I’m trying to think of an example, but I know so little about the upholstery. I’m trying to think of what your ideal customer would be like. If you’re doing re-upholstery of classic cars, you could literally just be creating content about specific classic cars. The best customer of yours is like, I don’t know any about cars either, it’s like a 1950 Chevy or something. You could write articles and create videos about that car and about redoing car, not even just upholstery but everything around it. So that anybody who would possibly be your customer, like that specific person is interested in what you’re creating, but then indirectly, they learn to know and trust you, Daniel based on the articles you’re writing, about this car that they are working on, this is their life-long dream. Then, they finally get to some point that they want to reupholster the car. And, while they’re reading your article, they glimpse at the top that you have this upholstery service, they click on it. But, they’ve already been reading your stuff and they kinda know you and kinda trust you last couple of months and now it comes time… You know what I mean? You wanted to be so almost indirect, the problem is most people just write that crappy like, “Oh, this is my upholstery”. Nobody’s going to find you, nobody’s ever going to search for Daniel’s Upholstery Service typically online until they know you. But before that they just have to find you based on content. Pretty example that I can concretely use right is Hack the Entrepreneur. I launched it, built up really big audience quickly. Now, I’ve created a podcasting course. It’s a podcast that interviews entrepreneurs in start-ups and different businesses around the world. We have conversations strictly about business and the person running that business. Little did I know that I was building this audience of people that are super into podcast. Which makes sense now, of course, but it didn’t at that time. Those people were emailing me, asking how I can create a podcast that was successful like mine. Weird, right? It’s not what my content is about but it drew them in as podcast listeners and then wanting to be podcast creators, based on the fact that they liked my show. I created a podcasting course, the complete opposite of anything I thought I would make money off of from my content, and people bought it up like crazy which is strange. I don’t know, I don’t know if I’m explaining it well because it’s so almost disjointed. Cause if I would have just created, I think of podcast, I’m trying to sell podcasting course all along, it wouldn’t have worked the way it did. I don’t know if I’m doing it, Daniel.
[Daniel Bowling] You started with value first. But I asked the question just in a way that my listener would ask. And I love that you’re struggling answering it because that’s the disconnect between the online world and the offline world is we don’t know how to communicate.
[Jon Nastor] Okay. That’s cool. That’s cool, I like that.
[Daniel Bowling] Let’s simplify because as you’re talking, you’re hitting in some good points for me. I would see somebody asking the question why would we come online. And as I learn more and more about the online business world, I see the other end of it, too, where people starting a new podcast everyday thinking, “Oh, I’m on online business now and this podcast is going to be my business”. I think it’s more easily explained in a way that in addition to your business you put out content or offer value in a way that gets people back to you and your business.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, exactly. That’s huge mistake is creating a podcast as a business. A podcast isn’t a business. A podcast is just a form of content that you use to allow people to find you, allow people to learn about you and your topic, and then indirectly that’s that whole know you like you that trust you. They’ve learned from having you in their ears but they know you like they can trust you. Now, after listening to me enough I send them email it says I have this for sale. Lots of them want to buy it because they know who I am. It’s not just some random person. That content can be a podcast, it can be a blog where you can write. It can be videos, you can have a YouTube channel, and these are all free channels you can use. You can figure it out which one, first of all, where your customer is, and then which content you can create the easiest for you. I’m terrible on video, I’m great behind the microphone with just audio, I’m okay on a type writer just type, well actually on computer just typing stuff out. Protects, right? And you have to cut it and pick you with your strength and kinda push those, and, then go in that direction.
[Daniel Bowling] In an offline world, it might not even be in online type of content where people might actually create a product and think, “I’m going to sell this, that is going to be my business.” It might try to create a facebook page for that product or just make a goal at it. When I think that’s a problem that you just hit a dead end and back off to what you are doing before. You should be creating the products that you’re following wants you to create and you’re not going to be hard selling anything. Start building the audience and fans, customer based first.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, that’s a great idea. I guess the way I explained this recently in an article that I wrote and it was basically it’s that whole idea of going to a dinner party or a cocktail party. You picture kind of like that. You don’t just show up and some guy walks over to you just going to shake your hand and introduce himself, “I have this for sale”. First, they’re just going to look at you and walk away. But if you’re talking to them about the things that interest them for the next 3 hours, by the end of it they might actually come over to you and ask you, “Hey, can I have your card just to take with me?” Do you know what I mean? If you just like constantly, “Hey, take my card, here take my card, here I have this for sale”, nobody want to talk to you. That’s basically I think what we’re trying to get at online is that you have to make a conversation first. If you could provide the value that audience would build. And, then if I go around a party at this point now and I talked to people, and ask me what I do, we start talking, by the end of it I’ll get people coming up to me and asking me questions about podcasting, about creating a product online, they will “How would you create software, how would you do it?” Actually, by the end of almost any party now, I could be standing there be like “Wow, there’s five people have asked me almost the exact same question”. I can literally think of this like just online world if I can create a product right now the next 20 minutes before I left here, I can probably sell it to 10 people in this room. Which is (inaudible) cause they told me what they wanted, right? Which is what you said don’t just like great some just walk into the party “here’s what I got for sale” And, it was like “Wah, it’s not what we’re interested in. First of all why the hell are you trying to sell me something while I don’t even know your name.” It’s one of those things, that was the way that I can explain it the best was that party. Think of how you interact as a human being out in the real world with people. Basically, people get to disconnect sometimes when they try and go online and they think that it’s not the direct human relationship anymore, and it really is, and if you treat it like that then, you will build that audience. And then, the audience will tell you what exactly what they want from you. And then, you can make it, then you can sell it to them, and they will love to buy from you.
[Daniel Bowling] I like the analogy of the dinner party. It makes it seem smaller like something I can understand not knowing how big the internet actually is. I can get my head around an offline business in one town and compare it to like as an upholstery business where I put designers. These designers are at my dinner party and I just want to get them on my fan list, and I can reach out to them throughout the year and help them out answer questions forum and they’re going to think of me over any other random upholstery who hasn’t done one thing for them.
[Jon Nastor] Right. As long as you’ve been cool at that party and weren’t just trying to shove your business card into their pocket right before talking to them. As long as you’re cool at that party and try to talk a little about stuff like creating a relationship, then of course, they want to deal with you now. Next week when it comes time to need upholstery, they will choose you. You can even charge more money now because they’ll be like “I know, but Dan was really cool last week. He’s a bit drunk, got a bit loud, but other than that he’s pretty cool.”
[Daniel Bowling] Did you say party or dinner party? Cause there’s a difference.
[Jon Nastor] Is there? Oh, sorry. It’s Canada, there’s no difference.
[Daniel Bowling] Yeah, I am probably wasted in either one. I like to see what you think about me, Jon. But, no. I have done exactly what you’re saying. I do charge double prices but there’s also a lot of things I don’t charge for and the key is that I’m there to help and I help them get out of situations. And I’m not always what’s in it for me, it always comes ten-fold back to me.
[Jon Nastor] Yeah, it does. And if it doesn’t that’s fine. It doesn’t have to come every single point. It will overall come back ten-fold, it just will. It’s just how it is and you have to be okay with giving and not receiving from everybody because if you’ll do receive back from will be huge and it will make up for it. Be okay with it and honestly give it genuinely want to give and help people. Not just do it but this just back handed like “Oh, I’m going to sell to you them”. If you see it through too much now, it’s just not cool. It’s not necessary at all. Then, you’ll have to be like a sales type person and this doesn’t the way we’re talking. You don’t have to be good at sales cause the sales just gonna happen because people just like you now. Just genuinely being cool.
[Daniel Bowling] I’m not bragging on myself bout genuinely being cool but I think that’s what I’ve done. I never expect anything back but I have people that always will come back to me and I’m very thankful for. But I’ve also trying to reverse engineer it so I can apply it to other people’s businesses and put a lot of fun into this. And I think that’s the one keeping that I’ve done. Just try to offer more value and not expect anything in return. Of course, payment when I do a job but beyond that…
[Jon Nastor] Of course
[Daniel Bowling] On being genuine, people see through that if you’re not. One thing that I’ve heard that you talked about a lot over the course of knowing you is how to fail. It’s very important to know how to fail and move on. Can you tell us about that?
[Jon Nastor] Oh yeah. I’m expert at this. What I’ve learned over the years and how I’ve gotten better at it is I do a ton of stuff. I try things constantly all the time. Before when I was like I made this transition from offline when I had my cultured stone masonry business. I got out of that and was like constantly trying to go online. I would try something online and it would fail miserably of course. Because the first 10 or 20 or 50 things anybody does anything probably fails. If so these curves that I wouldn’t try anything for 3 months or 6 months again. Now, that’s probably in what would have taken me 2 years before to try different things, I tried in 2 years. Now, every morning, I’m just kind of “I’m gonna email this person and see if I get them on the show.” I’m gonna approach this person about working with them. I’m gonna see if this person and it doesn’t bother me anymore if things just don’t go the way it need to go. It is how it is. What happens but I find that the more things you try and the quicker and is the more likely you’re gonna get to then the most brief successes. And those brief successes, as one brief success can make up for 10 or 20 failures. Like nothing and you forget all about them. “Oh, that win!” Then, you’re gonna push to get to the next win quickly cause you have to go through a whole bunch of failures always and everything to get to the next one, it’s just how it is. From the outside, lots of times it looks like “Oh, well look at Jon, there’s always things right.” Said, “yeah, I guess”. But there’s like 20 failures in between every little brief success. If you step back far enough, then it’s like “Well, but you can see this trajectory line up Jon’s audience growing. The amount of money Jon makes are…” But it’s like there’s also these punctuations of crazy failure along the way. But over time, it’s still building, it’s still going up and I really don’t think because I’m now in Episode 96. I interviewed 96 really smart entrepreneurs. And, it’s the same for all of them. When we dive deep enough, everybody just screws up non-stop makes stupid mistakes follows their gut, and their gut leaves them in dust from things. But they just keep going, head down, go, go, go, go. It just looks like they’re doing everything right. But nobody is, nobody ever does. A whole thing is just momentum, build it quickly do things fast and don’t get to discourage by the fact of doing things wrong or making mistake or thinking like “this is gonna totally work and just poooh”. That’s just how life works. I mean, not even just business, actually, just like life in general. It’s how it is, right? Things come from everywhere and it’s fluid, and it works that way. So, just do a ton of stuff and be willing to suck whatever you’re trying because that’s just the way it works. I don’t know, I guess that’s what I do. I just don’t care about the suck anymore, and I really like what I do. I also outwork a lot of people, so I just keep going and makes mistakes constantly.
[Daniel Bowling] I like that and the Jon that I know. I’ve been through from the beginning of your show with you and watch you really just take off. You would email like the first group newsletter you sent out, you messed it up but you kept going and you sent an apology. It seemed really genuine and real. “I’m a real person, I did this. Sorry.”
[Jon Nastor] It’s amazing how far that’ll take you – being human. I’m just gonna tell you a quick story. I went to my first conference now since Hack the Entrepreneur started last summer and it was totally gonna be for few months. Just want to talk to smart people, and I just gonna back to my business. Really snowballed. I just done it well on it, and it’s growing. I went to my first conference ‘bout 2 months ago since this has happened. Me in conferences isn’t super good usually, it’s like “Oh, I’ve got to talk to people I don’t know and stuff.” But people coming up to me and talking to me like about my show. It was really inch asking me questions and I have had actually guide people. It was strange but I found myself over and over again, “Jon, how do you do this? Jon, how do you do this?” My answers ended up repeated. Then, I move to the next lady and I repeated to her, “It’s just two things I do – I literally, I’d be human to people, I literally want to talk to people. And when I tell people on my show to email me if you have any questions, I will respond, I do. I give up my cellphone number sometimes on my show, and tell people to text me, don’t call me because I don’t even answer my mom’s phone calls. But text me, I will respond. Get me on twitter, get me anywhere and I will respond. We say we wanna build relationship with people but we don’t wanna do the relationship side our self which isn’t make any sense and it’s not human. You have to just genuinely be human. When you screw up, tell people you screwed up, I’m sorry but this is what happened. I learn from it, you can learn from it and it really works. And the second thing I do is really that I work harder than a lot of podcasters at this point. I’m not better than anyone at it, I’m not. I just really put my head down and work my ass off for the last 8 months. You can outwork a lot of people. 90% of success with your own zest is showing up. I think it’s actually more than that. Showing up consistently all the time and just working, and working, and working. When everybody else quits, you just keep working. And eventually it takes off just the way it is. That’s my advice – be human and work your ass off.
[Daniel Bowling] Which goes long way in relationship building, just being real.
[Jon Nastor] It does, it does. I know. It’s not always easy to do especially online, alright. People do, I understand that people, cause you feel this disconnect, right? Here I am speaking a condo I rented in kitchen, speaking into a microphone into a laptop. But I’ve done it so much now that it’s natural to me to really get into the conversation and I’m engaged in it, it’s real. But sometimes when you’re getting started, it’s hard, it’s like this disconnect. I create something and I just put it out into the internet. And then tell you can do it genuinely and really truly know who you’re speaking to, know who you want for your audience, then create stuff to go out there looking for them. It’s really hard to do it genuinely. It’s really obvious when people just trying to be genuine, it’s something worth in trying to be genuine cause you obviously can’t fake it. That’s what makes a not genuine. I understand that it is hard but it’s knowing who you are looking for and finding a way to talk to them personally and directly to them.
[Daniel Bowling] And relationships are very important for people like us who there’s a lot of things that we don’t know ourselves. We’re gonna rely on the expertise of other people to let us not get stuck and move forward and rely in them to do what they’re good at.
[Jon Nastor] Exactly.
[Daniel Bowling] Exactly. So, speaking conferences I’m going to podcast movement so we see each other there.
[Jon Nastor] Yes, we definitely will. I just got my flight booked actually last week, or Monday maybe it was.
[Daniel Bowling] Me, too. I thought I was gonna wait too, long. Your hotel is already booked.
[Jon Nastor] Oh yeah, my hotel has been booked for awhile, too. This is the first time somebody else’s paying for me actually to go. I’m just waiting for them to do it. I get that benefit.
[Daniel Bowling] I feel like you’re wrapping it in, so that’s the end of this interview.
[Jon Nastor] No.
[Daniel Bowling] I paid for mine.
[Jon Nastor] Well I’m saying it cause it’s weird to me but it’s weird to everyone. It’s weird to everyone everything we’re trying to the first time. Or everything we do the first time or the first 10th times, right? When I first started podcasting which is weird to talk into a mic to a laptop. Now, it’s totally normal for me. It’s weird to go to a conference that people wanna talk to you. It’s weird to go to a conference for the first time and not knowing anybody and not having anybody talk to you. You have to go and talk to people. It’s weird starting your business online for the first time. It’s weird starting business online for the 5th time. It’s weird creating your first product and selling it online. It’s weird trying your first blog. All of it is weird, it’s weird for all of us. None of us if ever just come online and like “Whoa, I’ve been… I was raised blogging.” It’s like “No, you were, nobody was.” You know what I mean. I mean the kids are gonna be now but it’s not the way it is. I guess that’s what I was trying to say because it’s one of those things that from the outside it’s like “Oh, you can look and be like “Oh, that guy. These guys paid from the goal and that’s cool.” But to me it’s like weird, it’s odd, it’s never happened before and I’m cool with that. I’m still gonna do it. But I’d like the idea of having the dialog that these things are freaky and wacky to all of us. We all have to do everything for the first time at some point. It’s not that I grew up podcasting, it’s like I started last summer. It’s just the way it is, right? We do these things and we think always from the outside “Look at that guy runs that crazy business, he must be so good, he knows how to do all things. He talks to me like I have no idea what I’m doing.” I just have to keep figuring it out the worst thing that I’m, the part that I’m worst at my business and as soon as I can hire somebody to replace me in that because then they can actually do well. My business does well I’m terrible at management, so I hire a good manager. I’m terrible at this.” When really you look from the outside you’d be like “Well that person must be good at management, that person must be good at marketing.” They’re not, they’re just terrible at all of it. They just know enough to delegate it out to other people and admit to themselves that you don’t have to know this stuff. You just have to be willing to suck and go into it blindly and scare the crap on yourself on doing it. It’s just the way it works.
[Daniel Bowling] Is it true that you were born with a microphone in your hand?
[Jon Nastor] Yeah. No, absolutely not.
[Daniel Bowling] Drum sticks?
[Jon Nastor] Drum sticks, yes. But no man, podcasting for me is the weirdest thing in the world. A year ago, I could not handle listening to myself in a microphone. I never speak to a microphone on stage. I’ve been on stages all over the place playing drums. I love being a friend of the crowd, but put a microphone in front of me, even singing like back up song like an album we record or something, nope, I don’t do it. I don’t like my voice, I don’t like talking into mics, I don’t. Now, it’s completely bizarre. I mean, if I can do it, I literally just force myself to start and force myself to just be horrible. Just work through it. I think that’s why people relate to my genuineness it’s because I’m not really that good. Admit it, it’s just me. I’m not really putting on a show here. It’s just me. So, that is weird, man.
[Daniel Bowling] That is great. If we can do this, anybody can.
[Jon Nastor] Exactly. Everybody should cause it’s amazing. It’s been life changing for me in the last year. It’s amazing. Blows my mind, totally blows my mind. I shouldn’t be up to do this for a living, but I do.
[Daniel Bowling] Well on that note, I love how the conversation went. I really do. But I will let you go cause I know you’re busy guy.
[Jon Nastor] Cool, thanks man. I appreciate coming on. It’s been a blast.
[Daniel Bowling] Well, yeah. It’s true for I wanted to pick your brain and catch up cause we haven’t been talking for awhile. Not that we’re fighting just haven’t had the chance
[Jon Nastor] I’m never talking to you again, Daniel.
[Daniel Bowling] It was weird when you said that. It was. You said it just like that, too.
[Jon Nastor] I did, I know. I know I’m terrible.
[Daniel Bowling] I catch you one of your days.
[Jon Nastor] There’s a lot of those days.
[Daniel Bowling] Tell us where we can find you?
[Jon Nastor] Hacktheentrepreneur.com is the best place to see me. My pretty face is right there at the top. You can drop your email in there, that gives you direct access to me. I say that I want to talk to you and I wanna help you in any way I can. I absolutely do. Drop your email there, you got a welcome email immediately, hit reply comes straight to my phone, straight to my laptop. Ask me anything you want. Tell me I’m awesome, tell me I suck, it’s cool. I’m good as a header, but definitely come make a connection. Check out the show if you want it’s all on the website Hack the Entrepreneur. And just keep listening to Daniel cause he’s good. He’s better that I am. There you go.
[Daniel Bowling] I paid him to say that.
[Jon Nastor] You did, didn’t you? I’m still waiting for that check. It’s probably come across the boarder, it takes a while.
[Daniel Bowling] Oh, when you said you could take a check, ha, I was all over it. I have to go call my bank really quick, so I’ll talk to you soon.
[Jon Nastor] Thanks, Dan.
One thing, I would have liked to talk about which I didn’t, but it’d be cool if you did cause it helped me a lot when I was making that transition that you’re trying to help your people with. Really just when you’re using the internet now, try and think of it as a producer. Meaning, literally when you’re on Facebook tonight, just think about the people that have built this website, they’re not that smart, they’re just people. Don’t use it so passively, like on every website you go to, you end up at somebody’s site and you’re reading an article tonight because somebody shared a link on Facebook. Just literally be like “Wow, somebody just wrote this. Somebody just like me wrote this and put it up there”. And it really kind of to me, it took about 6 months but it really broke down the barrier between the internet and myself. Like television, I still can’t do that. Television is passive, it’s there, I just can’t end up on TV myself. But the internet is interesting because we can just end up on the internet, like literally tonight. And if anybody wants to buy a domain and put up a WordPress site, you could just start writing stuff. Not that you have to do that, but just start thinking about the fact that somebody is just behind these, all of it. Just one person is sometime behind a lot of these websites. And they’ve just decided to start speaking through it and using at as a platform and it really helped me. The internet doesn’t freak me out at all. Some people, they really are so, it blows my mind that they can use the internet for like years and not ever think about the fact that it’s just built by somebody or some person put up this website. I don’t know.
Now I do believe that’s the end. Unless Jon has a few more words that he wants to pop and say. What he was saying about being a producer rather than a consumer is so powerful. I never really thought about that but there was a transition as I was learning more about podcasting and more about online business and websites that I started to get inspired because I realized, these are regular people that just decided to take action and they started to make sh*t happen. Excuse my french but I don’t know of a better way to put it. I wanna tell you a little secret. I didn’t even own a computer a year ago when I decided I want to start a podcast and not only did I own a computer, I didn’t know how to operate a computer. I hadn’t known a computer in like 10 or 15 years so the last one I had was basically a calculator probably compared to what they do these days. So I am not telling you this to make you realize how far that I’ve come, although I am proud of the fact that you’re hearing me through your earbuds right now and the fact that I’ve figured it out and still learning and still figuring it out cause I have the tendency of giving up when it gets hard. So I still went through and I did it. The point is I am a regular person. If I’m doing this, you can be doing this. And if you don’t want to do a podcast, you can be doing anything that you want to do. You just got to decide to do it and take action. I am not saying that you have to start an online business. But anymore you have to give up the times and start focusing on growing and developing yourself and your business, whatever that means for you. Just know that you’re one decision away from learning how to use email and learning how to do the sales call and everything needed that you’re currently just uncomfortable doing to grow your business. Because other people are doing it and they’re regular people too. So if I wanna challenge you with one thing, it’s your mindset. Work on looking around you and noticing the other businesses and how they ran. And who they ran by. Coz there’s no reason why you can’t be where they’re at. Thank you Jonny my friend, those are very powerful stuff. That’s all that I have for you today and if you have not done so yet, I would really appreciate if you’d go to iTunes and leave me a rating or review. That is the very best way that you can help me spread to us that need to be hearing this message. Log in to iTunes, leave me a rating or review and I will love you for it. So until next time good luck in everything that you do. I hope you have a wonderful day. Catch you in the next episode. Peace out!